Feel free to add your own.
Just want to share my thoughts and experience in PVP, not complete though, cause I haven't really fought all the classes yet, but if theres something I can share about any classes encounter I will.
I am very sure there are many veterans in the forum which is way more experience in PVP then me, and my wish is that if there is something they can contribute from your own experience, I would really appreciate it if you guys can add in your bit of wisdom and experience. I hope that in the end, all the information here will be compiled up and shared to everyone as a sort of guide for PVP.
And I will only go into the skills that I used in PVP, cause I really don't have much experience with some skills like Sword Dance, etc. And I will not go into skills like Impervion, Parry and Revenge, cause I think its pretty idiotproof, and don't really require much experience or explanation to actually know how to use it.
The reason why I posted this thread is because Knights are often being mocked by other class in PVP due to Revenge and Impervion and stuff, and a lot of Knights playing in PVP don't really use their class well, and if I might say rely too much on impervion and revenge. I myself is not a good player, I repeat, NOT A GOOD PLAYER, only moderate at best, but I write this all with good intentions of helping all the newbies that know little about PVP.
BTW, the strategies I included is only from my perspective of playing 1 vs 1 since CBT. Most of the time in group matches, it was a mess. Literally, I still find it very difficult to play in Group Matches unless you really coordinate well with your teammates, which is rarely the case, most of the time, it will be Rambo style of charging anyone in sight.
Skills necessary for PVP
- A long range assault, a diagonal screwdriver to the ground. Decent range and decent AOE. This will be the main skill to set up your combo in 1 vs 1 as it deals a knockdown, and if you caught them by surprise, hopefully they won't be able to do recovery roll in time, thus opening your opponents up for combo. However in most cases, you will land close enough to the opponent, giving you ample time to time your attack right after they roll.
- I usually use this when approaching melee enemies in a straight line. (Melee class of course) But the key is this, every melee class got their own version of range attack, and they will plan to use it too, so you have to use this skill before they do, and have more faith in its range, its pretty long if you ask me. However, this is the least used methods.
- My favourite time to use this skill is when I am being chased(Again, melee class, its suicide to run in the same line with range classes). I will execute a jump followed by an Aerial Smackdown aimed backwards, and it hits most of the time, dealing a knockdown and opening them up for the combo.
- A 5 hit combo attack, our best offensive skills one on one. This is a problematic skill in my opinion, its got a terrible range both lateral and horizontally, meaning you need to be close to your opponent to hit them(Side view), and you need to be in line with your opponent for it to hit(er, dunno wht view, u need to be in line, parallel, hope u guys get that), a slight distance and you will miss, and trust me you don't wanna miss when you use this skill, cause its got a terrible recoil, and will definitely leave you vulnerable to attacks from your opponent.
- Its only redeeming virtue is its damage potential, it deals roughly 3500 damage at around level 30, thus making it your strongest offensive ground skill.
- You only use this when you are sure you will hit, either after your opponent recovery roll, or after you render them immobile, be it stun or freeze, etc, and once the 1st hit gets in, you can breath a sigh of relief, cause the hard part is only to get it to hit, and its got a terrible cooldown, so use it sparingly.
- Spear Jab is good not only for damage, but because it deals a "Slow" knockdown, note only when the final spear thrust hits, so if the final thrust miss, you're screwed (There is a short animation before the character actually gets knocked down). So you should never use this short window of vulnerability for a normal attack, use it to set up the standard launch + storm blade attack. The best launch to used in my opinion is Shoulder Tackle, since you are already in line with the opponent, Shoulder Tackle will definitely hits, and its the fastest launcher you have, and its fast launch will reduce the chance of your opponent recovering.
- And a definite combo you have to master is the Hammer Crush (with Stun) + Spear Jab. Its basically a free hit once you got your opponent stunned, and this is the best time to use Spear Jab.
- At MAX level I deal about 800-900 damage at around level 30, and you got a 70% Chance of stunning your opponent. This skill is not good for damage, its slow, its got a terrible recoil, and it really opens you up to counter attack if you wish to spam this skill in PVP.
- It is only good for its stun, thats it. Thats all and nothing else.
- And from my experience, it will only guarantee you a hit right after storm blade, even then the timing must be perfect, or your opponent will just recovery roll away.
You gotta make sure the hammer hits just as the opponent is landing, its not easy, and I seriously need some more practise with it, but if you hit, you will force your opponent to stand up, and if you are lucky, you will stun the opponent as well, opening them up for your combo attacks.
- And if you feel like being cheap, and you feel lucky as well, you can spam the Hammer Crush at every cooldown and hope that it keeps your opponent in a stunlock, but it will not be more than 3 or 4 hits I assure you, cause the long animation of hammer crush will soon allows your opponent to run away, and you might not get a stun as well, so I never spam this more than 2 times.
- This skill as I mention previously works perfectly with Spear Jab.
- This skill is of course a launcher, and a relauncher as well, its funny though, I rely more on Shoulder Tackle as my launcher, although I use it frequently to try to score a launch.
- When you go into a jumping competition with your opponent (most likely a melee class), the key is of course the timing. If you manage to make your opponent land before you do, then its the perfect time to use cutdown.
- Its kinda hard to explain. Its like just before your opponent land, you use Cutdown and it will hit your opponent, provided you are high enough in the air. That is the only timing I find suitable to use Cutdown if your opponent is good. It will be very easy of course if your opponent gives you plenty of openings. The normal thing everyone will do is of course to follow with a storm blade.
- However I find Cutdown a bit slow for my taste and definitely prefer Shoulder Tackle as my primary launcher. However, this shouldn't stop you from using Cutdown frequently, it is a good launcher in my opinion.
- The only use for pressure is as a launcher, its got the longest range out of your launcher, and unless you level it up to level 3, dont bother using it. Its best advantage is of course the fact that its instant, and its got a pretty long range.
- I usually use this when the opponents is far away, and I of course try to stay parallel to the opponent before attempting this skill, but if it hits, its another opening to be capitalize, with the standard Storm Blade combo.
- Use the long range benefits to the best of your advantage, and I am very sure, once you get the hang of it, you will definitely put this skill to good use.
- Our bread and butter skill, use it when you can, anytime you can, cause it render your opponent totally helpless in the air, and as I mentioned earlier, allows you to use Hammer Crush to the best of your advantage, and its the staple skill of any warrior class in PVP.
- I won't go much into this, as I already discuss much in details about Storm Blade usages in the earlier skills.
- Definitely one of the best launcher of all classes put together in my opinion, due to its speed, and its moderate range.
- This is the skill that I will use anytime there is an opening as a launcher, provided I am close to the opponent, because it is just so fast, and usually will caught your opponent off-guard.
- A good time to use this is when the opponent just land from a jump, or the opponent just stand up from a knockdown, or right after the opponent complete their recovery roll. There's a lot of windows of opportunity to use Shoulder Tackle. And if you think there is more openings that can be capitalize please add on into this, cause I believe there are a lot more ways of using Shoulder Tackle to its maximum potential.
- Use its speed and range to the best of your advantage, perfect to use when you are chasing down a retreating opponent even if you use it just to close the distance.
- The openings you can capitalized are mentioned earlier on, and do look out for those openings, and remember each one of them, so that you will know the right timing to use shoulder tackle at all times.
My Standard Combo
Shoulder Tackle/Cutdown/Pressure > Storm Blade > Hammer Crush > Spear Jab > Hammer Crush > Shoulder Tackle/Cutdown > Storm Blade > etc...
This is the only combo I use, I am pretty sure a lot of veterans will use this kinda combo as well, or even a better one if they knew of it.
I would really appreciate it, if there are any veteran knights out there who can add on into this.
Stun combo- sword dance > hammer crush > spear jab > hammer crush > sword dance > hammer crush > spear jab > Repeat ----by NoobIVLife
My Thoughts on Other Class
Intro I haven't got much experience on this, so please addon into this if you can. But I will just tell you what I can from my experience.
They have 2 dangerous skill, one is Stumblebum, a long range stun which a good gladiator will use to their best advantage, once you are hit by it, pretty much half your life is gone if the gladiator is good.
And as my friend MadSJJ painfully reminded me, lol, the I'm Gone Bro is a skill that you will have to avoid at all cost, and the only way I find so far of avoiding the skill is do the sidestep, and never ever stay in parallel with a Gladiator cause this skill is an instant skill, if you are parallel to the gladiator, it will hit, it will hit and it will hit, and it gives a big opening for the gladiator to come in and do a Storm Blade.
So, stay away from in front of them, and only attacks once you see the bro kicking, its got a 5 sec cooldown (which makes you wonder why they give spear jab a 10 sec CD, lol), so your window of opportunity is very short.
And they got an infinite combo of their own as well, from what I notice, after they score in an air combo, if you cant recovery roll away, they will follow up with a relaunch, and a three hit attack in the air, and once you're up they will most likely use their Bro Skill again to knock you once again in the air for a Storm Blade.
As of now, I am totally beaten by the combo, and I am not sure whether you can roll away from stormblade, or even the final knockdown attack of a three hit air combo attack, I think I should be able to roll away to safety, but don't seem to work for me. For the pros out there, do you need a specific timing to press the direction+C button, or can you just spam the direction+C button once you are in the air (Thats what I do, don't seem to work). It will be great if someone can clarify this for me.
So, as of now, I think it will be pretty difficult to defeat a good Gladiator since we can't really attack them from upfront. I've tried to shoulder tackle from up front, but still got knockdown by the bro skill effect and leave myself open to an air combo.
So, if someone said that Gladiator sucks in PVP, OMG how they mistaken they are. Credit goes to MadSJJ for clearing up my eyes, and show me the full potential of Gladiator.
So, when fighting a Gladiator, I think you have to be very careful to avoid the I'm Gone Bro skill, cause that is their major skill in setting up opponents for a combo.
Incoming Bro would be the one that u need to fear more when lining up with a gladiator, as it has a further range and will guarantee a knockdown and a launch at higher levels, although i don't know the effectiveness of it as i kept it at level 1.
Additional Notes, Credit goes to SJJ
I'm Gone Bro's range is rather pathetic and i usually use it when the opponent is getting up ( or i force him to get up by using down X ). Also, you can only stormblade after I'm Gone Bro in two cases : 1. When the opponent is jumping away and the skill takes place in mid air and he falls, or 2. I'm Gone Bro is at least lvl 3 when it launches ( similar to lvl 1 cutdown height, sufficient for a tricky timing stormblade if you wanna score all hits ). The second condition would mean that all lvl 28 and below Gladiators CANNOT make use of this technique, as Lvl 3 bro lee skills are only attainable at lvl 29.
As mentioned by SJJ, I'm Gone Bro is perfectly used when the opponent is down, and forcing them to get up, and one more thing worth mentioning is that the animation of the Bro Skill, especially Incoming Bro is delayed, plus, its pretty long since it deals 8 hits, and this time window is huge enough to allow Gladiator to make a perfect setup for their Air Combo, so really when playing against gladiator, try your best to avoid the bro skills.
The only way I find easy to defeat a jester is to allow him to use his skills, and immediately pounce on him once there is an opening, they got pretty low HP, and goes down in 4-5 combos from my Knight.
Openings that you can capitalize is when he uses Final Decision (The spinning whirlwind move). If I am not mistaken, cause I can't recall, if that attack miss, it really really leave himself open to a Cutdown just as he finished. The part I am not sure about is whether you can use the Cutdown while he is spinning, caused I seem to recall being able to launch jester in the air straightaway when he misses the final decision attack with a cutdown.
Another opening is right after Upper Screwdriver, time your Shoulder Tackle right just before he lands, and you will be able to sneak in another Storm Blade.
Once you get caught in their skills though, well,...kinda game over for you, unless you got revenge on, which I don't. From my experience, I only manage to do recovery roll from their infinite combo chain a few times. The openings for the recovery roll is right after upper screwdriver or final decision,(at least that is the only time I manage to recovery roll away), and that was when I was pretty close to the edge of their attack range.
So, I think its a do or die fight with Jester, just make sure you don't get caught in the combo and you will do just fine.
Personal Ranting Although I personally think, they are the cheapest class in PVP, even worst than hunters if you ask me, because there is absolutely no counter against their infinite Final Decision > Rolling Stinger > Upper Screwdriver > Final Decision > Rolling Stinger > Upper Screwdriver....infinite combo. Which makes me really wonder, why Barunson nerf down the BM through their CD, and yet left Jester virtually untouched. Sorry, its pretty a biased viewpoint here, because I just think its too unfair since we knights unlike other classes (imo) really need to set up our skills very well, we need to time everything right, requiring real skills, which is not an easy thing to do, just so that we can be competent in PVP. I repeat, competent...not overpowered, not anything else...But with jester you just need three shortcut button to be spam at your pleasure, which really take no skill at all if you ask me. So, if you ask me which class deserves to be nerfed the most, I will definitely say Jester.
Additional Notes, Credit goes to Stasis
Also regarding Jesters. If there's a rocket punch on the way, avoid it. At all cause. If you get hit by it and get stun, Jesters usually moves in and dig in. So, do watch out for the rocket punch, cause it can stun just like our Hammer Crush. And if you get stunned by it, you will usually end up dead. But its very obvious and move really slow. A bright red glove, you cant miss it, so just side step and you will easily avoid it.
Hunter & Ranger
The standard combo of all archer class is of course their launcher follow by the inifinite arrows....the only effective way to counter this head on is Impervion, and Revenge helps a lot, cause it will make them think twice before attacking you.
Another easy way is of course sidestep away from them, a side-step dash is very effective against them, and do be reminded not to jump in front of them, it doesn't help you to avoid their attack, it leaves you wide open for their launcher and their AAS.
Hunters in addition will use poison skills(Acid Arrows), which reduce your HP bit by bit, don't worry, you're a knight, so it doesn't really hurt much, instead you gotta watch out for their Netbind which if hits, will leave you unable to move for a few seconds, and against a range class, pretty much instant death. They also got the Wolf Rush skill, which is instant, and can easily caught you off guard.
Rangers on the other hand, will spam Gatling Rush whenever its off the cooldown, they will also throw Grenades and fire Bazooka at you from a distance. SO, just be patient wait for an opening and try to launch them into the air. Use Aerial Smackdown to the best of your advantage to close the distance, and if you are lucky score a knockdown. They also have the Auto Shot System which is pretty pointless, since we usually have enough sense not to step into the range of tht cannon, so just play a waiting game if the ASS is up.
Finally met a really good assassin, and I can tell you if the player is good, damn they are good.
The standard Assassin approach will be to shadow walk and disappear from your sight, and hit you with a Swift Attack or rarely Dagger Throw. There is no way for you to avoid it unless you are lucky cause if they are good, they will hit you end of story. They will follow up with another Dagger Throw(Can hit fallen enemies at lvl 3 or 4, cant recall, I did ask him about it) if you fail to recovery roll. And if after that hit you still fail to recovery roll, they will come in with a Cutdown and a Aerial Frenzy air combo, after which, they will use Ambush to relaunch you into the air, yet for another Aerial Frenzy, and if they can keep this up, and there is no miss (which allows you to fall back to the ground for a recovery roll), you will be trapped in an infinite loop, and die.
They also use Swift Attack if they are close, which is a guaranteed hit, which will lead to a Knockdown unless you recovery roll, and if you are not careful, you will eat another Dagger Throw.
One thing I learn, when you play against an Assassin, you gotta be the agressor, cause the Dagger Throw really hurts, and its a low CD skill, and trust me, good sins will use it on every CD, and with each hit, you will have less chance of winning. Besides they get to score a free hit with Swift Attack every chance they get. So unless you make the move, you will only see your HP goes down and not his.
Openings you can capitalize on: 1. A very big opening if you can recovery roll from the Swift Attack executed from Shadow Walk. The strategy, you HAVE to recovery roll towards the sin after being hit by Swift Attack and Shoulder Tackle immediately. I have used this strategy to great effects, since the Dagger Throw is a bit slow, and with luck and skill, your Shoulder Tackle will most likely be faster than his Dagger Throw and you will get a free Air Combo opportunity. 2. Also with Dagger Throw, you have to play a cat and mouse game for this one (although I know I did encourage you guys to be aggressive, but this is maneuver to open up a chance for counterattack, so I don't consider it running away), make him use the Dagger Throw and miss while you run away, one it miss, IMMEDIATELY jump and execute a backwards Aerial Smackdown, you will hit him, knock him down, and with luck, score directly with a Cutdown, or if he rolls away, chase after the rolling toon, and IMMEDIATELY use Shoulder Tackle one he is on his feet. This method works for me time and time again.
To win against a Sin, the key part is to avoid the Dagger Throw, you can't avoid Swift Attack but its easy to roll away from it, and another important part is never ever get Launched, cause they will use the Ambush + Aerial Frenzy combo to lock you in an infinite loop to kill you.
All right, heres the end of another update. Hope its useful.
Acolyte & Battlemage
I have terrible experience against this two class, my best result is only a draw against them, and the others are all losses.
The standard combo an Acolyte will use is the Barbarian + Hex combo. And they got a really weird launcher in my opinion. It hits you as long as you are above the hit radius. Even if you jump above the meteor that seems to hit only the ground, you will send into the air for an air combo, and another weird thing is their normal attack seems to be able to hit you even when you jump in the air, although I think that is because of lag issues, but I am pretty sure of the meteor thing. So the counter measure is of course not to jump in front of them. And Knights will harder time because we lack burst damage capability to kill an acolyte in a short combo. If we miss the opportunity to kill them outright, they will come back right at you with a full Hp thanks to their heal, while your HP is only going down and not up. So, I think that is definitely a disadvantage for the knight class.
As for Battlemage, from my experience, they will use three skills, Blizzard, and if you are unlucky enough to be caught in it, you will eat a Ball Lightning which easily halve your HP, and not to forget their Magic Missile which they will fire at you as rush head on towards them. They are really annoying to fight since they will constantly Dash Jump away, while leaving the Blizzard and Lightning Ball behind hoping you will be caught in it, and as you chase after them they will send Magic Missiles into your way. Thats why I find it hard to kill them as you need to get really close to them but at the same time they keep running away...its a cat and mouse which I never enjoy. ANd they are also capable of healing themselves up, which is yet another pain.
So, as a conclusion, I really think this 2 class is the perfect counter class for the Knight class. I might be making an overstatement since I myself is not very well acquainted in fight against this 2 class, so, again I would really appreciate it if the veterans will come in and share their experience in this aspect.
NoobIVLife- usually the best thing to do when fighting a mage class is to rush to their side. if you can catch them in a combo before they put up their skills it will make the match quicker. personally BMs for me are the easiest to kill, just use impervison when they cast the lightning orb just run through it, they usually dont expect you to be able to move after it. also, when they are dash jumping around watch their movements and learn to predict where they go and just be patient. once you can get a hit on them they will go down quick.
Priests on the other hand are the worst. usually they can kill a knight in no time. best to avoid picking a fight with them since all they need to do is slow heal and frog/freeze. dont bother with impervision, but if your parry is high enough maybe use it. your first hit on them should be from an ariel smackdown since its a good range launch and i usually use jump,dash, then ariel to close the distance and catch them off guard when they think they are too far for you to use it.
This will be the longest match of your life, nuff said...We got the lowest DPS, and we got tons of HP, figures....mostly it will be a jumping match, or a dashing match as both of you try to get into the best position.
It will most likely start with someone trying to land the first hit and miss and get counter attacked.
Rule of thumb, don't try to make the first move, maneuver around and wait for the opportunity, this is my strategy since I don't have Impervion and Revenge on.
A cheap strategy you can use in small maps on a standard Revenge Impervion Knight is to rush towards his side immediately at the start, if you are lucky you will catch him as he is trying to Buff himself up with revenge and Impervion, and if you are even luckier, he might not even had the time to activate impervion and you can use this opportunity to open him up for an air combo.
The problem usually stem from the guy having impervion, you can try a launcher on him to see whether it works, if it doesn't play a hide and seek game with him, don't go toe to toe, cause you will ended up getting launched. Its a cheap strategy but very effective. As for revenge, don't worry about, you got more than enough HP to deal with it. I even see this as an advantage, since Revenge really consume your MP, and in a long run, they will run out of gas, and are just sitting ducks.
So, maneuvering is your best option, use Shoulder Tackle every opportunity you get, and not to forget Pressure as a surprise attack. It will usually boils down to who uses his Skills more effectively. In fact, I can say that Revenge doesn't help at all when you play against another Knight. So, my advice, turn it off, its a long drawn stamina match, and you want to conserve as much MP as you can.
Credits And Ending Statement
Credits to SJJ, which kinda inspire me to write this. I lost to his Gladiator pretty badly, lol, and he just showed me how Gladiator pawns in PVP.
I will also include credits to anyone who contribute useful information that can be included into this thread.
And this information is free for all of course, anyone can use it, although I would really appreciate it if you credited the people who help to expand on this thread.
Another ending statement, is of course, this is strictly my opinion from my point of view, which may or may not, differs from yours, and in case we clash in opinions, feel free to disregard what I said. Each to his own. Just hope that this will help some of the newbies knights who suffers in PVP.